Tara (00:57):
Okay, we are back for part two of our 15 ways to maximise profit on your estate planning matters. So this is episode 10. Carrie, we had so much fun talking about this last episode.
Carrie (01:12):
I know, I know. I dunno how many people want to listen to us talk about pricing for a really long time. So that's why we split it into two. Also because I'm only one cup of tea deep this morning, so I need another cup of tea before we talk more about the admin side of law. But I think this end half is going to be really interesting because I think there's some real game changer.
Tara (01:31):
And we've got some controversy, things that might make you think a bit differently. You might love it or hate it, but we hope that whether you enjoy it or not you find it valuable. So we're going to dive in.
Carrie (01:45):
Tara, do you want to hit number five for pricing skills?
Tara (01:48):
Yeah, so I just, we're not going to dive into that, but we have a lot of resources and we haven't at the time of when this will be released, we won't announced it yet, but coming up before the end of 2024, we are working on a new product that will release by the end of the year, which is the estate planning pricing toolkit, which will have really detailed 90 minute training on what is value pricing and fixed pricing in estate planning and how do you do it and what are the principles and the analysis that you have to go through. We will have resources in there about how to calculate the break even price, like the minimum that you should be charging for your estate planning services in order to pay yourself enough to keep the lights on, pay the internet bill and pay yourself a salary that you deserve and want.
(02:48):
So reverse engineering what your pricing floor is. We have price list templates for you. We will have a cost agreement precedent you, which Carrie we'll talk about soon. So basically if you are like, well, I don't really know what to charge, we hear you and it is probably the hardest part out of the non-legal business skills we need. So we have put together a whole bunch of resources to help guide you on that. And I think once you get that pricing right and then you get the back office and your offer right with testamentary trust and you can deliver them really efficiently, all the pieces just fall into place and that's where the magic happens. Changing gears, Carrie, do you want to talk about the next two?
Carrie (03:40):
Yeah, actually I'm going to be a little bit efficient here as energy efficient as is my lifestyle, I'm going to combine six, seven, and 14 because these are all about including or upselling to your client's additional materials rather than just wills and powers of attorney. Okay? So when we're talking to clients, I think that there's a lot of opportunity here to make sure they understand what a will and power of attorney actually cover and how little they actually cover sometimes as well. And so what we're talking about here is making sure your clients understand that often they need family trust succession documentation, they need entity attorney documents to govern what happens to a trading entity if something happens to them. And then also things like a comprehensive letter of wishes. So when we talk about what a client has in a will, I sort of explain to them that the will is this really robust legal framework but doesn't say any of the emotional detail around what their actual wishes are.
(04:45):
So I think when we talk to a client about these making or helping them understand what the will and power of attorney actually cover and that estate planning is so much more than just a will and power of attorney. I want to just talk a little bit about family trust succession and entity powers of attorney in particular. I know that a lot of firms do their entity succession in their wills and although I have done this as a junior lawyer on a couple of instances, I think that as I get older and potentially more bitter, I'd like to say wiser, but sometimes I don't think I'm getting wiser. I think that we need to think about separating out those succession mechanisms into a separate document that aren't in the will for multiple reasons. And Tara does have training on this and precedents around family trust succession as well. But the core parts are keeping that succession mechanism outside the will for very practical and often technical reasons. So for example, if there's a chance that the terms of the will are going to be contested, you want to make sure that whoever is intended to control that separate family trust isn't beholden to that estate outcome. I think that's the biggest one. But also if you mess it up, then we are kind of siloing things so that they're separate as well.
Tara (06:08):
And Carrie, I'll just say the reason that always gets me is if you deal with it in the will, it doesn't address incapacity.
Carrie (06:17):
You're ahead of me, Tara. I'm getting there. I'm getting there.
Tara (06:20):
Thinking of getting ahead of ourselves. This is the topic for episode number 11.
Carrie (06:24):
Yes,
Tara (06:25):
Should we save some of our gem?
Carrie (06:27):
We will. But just quickly touching on entity powers of attorney as well because a lot of practitioners, I wasn't doing this enough even just a few years ago and then I lost, well, sorry, I didn't lose a client. A lady I know lost her husband who was running a business and she was having all these issues including something simple like changing over the payment machines. If there was some documentation in place that just made it easier so that business could keep running and keep taking payments, it would've halved the amount of stress that she had. So I think that when we're talking about these types of documentation to clients, I know some clients sort of say, oh, it's a bit of a hard sell. We're going to be talking about this more in episode 11, but I think that you are almost doing them a disservice by not talking about it. If they choose not to pick it, that's on them. But those options are there to help them do a comprehensive estate plan.
Tara (07:23):
And bringing this back to the profitability improvement for your firm, if you are like, well, I don't even know where to start for a power of attorney for a trust, don't worry because we have got precedents for all of this and detailed user notes and trainings and we can talk you through any specific instances in the weekly hot seats for the TT precedents club. So we've got resources there to support you upskill on this.
Carrie (07:54):
And I was using my own precedents, Tara until I started using yours to teach a few other people about how to use them. And they are just so easy to use. I now only use yours.
Tara (08:04):
Oh, thank you. But what I'm all about is increasing your customer's average spend because think about how much does it cost you to get each client in terms of the networking efforts and the opportunity cost of that. Any direct marketing that you are doing and paying for every time you get a new client, there is an acquisition cost attached to that. Even if it doesn't quite feel like it or you haven't quantified it, every new client costs you money. So if you can actually keep selling to the clients you already have or increasing the average spend of your client, that is going to make your firm more profitable as well. And so that's family trust, succession upsell entity, powers of attorney upsell, and a letter of wishes upsell all just makes perfect sense. It's highly aligned with what you are already doing and it's actually something your clients probably need anyway.
Carrie (09:07):
I think this next one we can talk about relatively quickly, but I know it's a pain point for a lot of people. So this one is talking about automating your file notes and meeting agendas. So that stuff that we just like, nobody likes doing it. Nobody likes, I mean maybe a little bit of agendas, they are a little bit at least exciting about where things are going, but it's the boring stuff of law. And so finding ways that we can actually minimise the amount of time that you're spending on those items because again, the client doesn't see value, they don't see you in the background like writing out a memorandum or the Magna Carta of what happened in the meeting. They just want to see that you gave them your time and you gave them a great product. So if we can use systems and processes to develop the file notes and meeting agendas at least from the base level and then we can go and make tailored changes based on what happened specifically in the meeting, then that's what they're there for. And again, if you are using Tara's products or if you're not using Tara's products, I should say both of I think your middle package and top packages have these agendas and file note templates in them.
Tara (10:14):
Yes, I think they're just in the top works package. What package are they? There you go. See, yeah, I see them all as great products, but when you're doing an estate planning matter, it's an upfront estate planning, I need a will and a power of attorney. The conversation points, the issues, they are nearly 99% the same. And so again, we've got integrated with your practise management system and coding in there. So if there's minor children and you put that into your matter field and then suddenly all the questions that you need to ask around guardianship Centrelink for BDBN, all of that stuff is coming up and appearing. And if you've got adult children, you're not seeing those questions that you don't need to ask. And what I love about it is it helps you leverage your junior staff, like your paralegals, your research clerks or your early career estate planning lawyers. So it actually tells them these are the points that we need to hit or cover off as part of a comprehensive strategy. And for the file notes, it's basically the same thing and you just check the box about we discuss these things, check the box, tick,
Carrie (11:26):
Tick, tick, tick, tick. It's a great risk minimization tool, right? Yeah. If you've already got there a list of things you have to talk about and then all you have to do is go in and put the ones that are really curly related to that particular matter. Sometimes I take into the actual second meeting just the file note template, so I know I'm actually making sure I talk about all the things I've got to talk about.
Tara (11:47):
Yeah, and we have an agenda template for that too. So I just think let's not reinvent the wheel as I said before, diagrams Carrie, number nine.
Carrie (11:59):
Yeah, so I love a diagram. I can't stop drawing. I don't understand how anybody can do estate planning that has any entities involved without a good diagram. And I blame you for this too, Tara. So as being trained as a junior, someone sends me any work and they'll send me like, this is the company, this is the trust. I will always do draw a diagram. It doesn't matter if I don't even show the client that I think clients like it is my general experience, but even if I do it just internally, it helps me see mechanically where things are. Now. Those things, if you don't have them, can take a lot of time to prepare. Okay? If you're doing it each time, it's really painful, but if you've got a system in the backend that it's easy just to make a few adjustments, it reduces that time significantly.
(12:49):
Now, as I said, sometimes I do it just for me, but often it can be a really big value add for your clients as well to do them like a flow chart showing them if you pass away, this is what happens if your spouse passes away. This is what happens if you both pass away. This is what happens because the large percentage of people are visual learners. And so if we've got a diagram there for them, it's easier for them to understand because when you send them the wills, they are not designed for normal humans. So if they get this diagram, you are giving that client that value out of understanding how things happen without having to manually write the boring stuff again in a separate document. So I think in terms of those diagrams, again, Tara's precedent package, the top one has these. We do use these in the hot seat as well. So we are practising what we preach. I think that if you're not using these, you're not capturing internally what's happening. And I think it's a good risk management tool to have your own diagrams and then also you're missing out on that opportunity to give that client that value add.
Tara (13:57):
Oh yeah, Carrie, in this situation, a picture literally tells a thousand words because it summarises what happens in those long testamentary trust wills and ties almost into, if you can add, here's the draw, the diagram of the asset structure, the family tree and the distribution of the estate, which we call an estate planning flow chart. If you can annex that to your file note, all that information is there, helps you get up to speed instantly when you open the file if you're on physical files. I do remember the very first time I was involved in making these and it took a bit of a mindset shift. I was not a senior associate, but I had been a lawyer for a few years. I was getting, it wasn't totally clueless, but still a bit clueless I'd say. And the partner at the time, we had a complex matter and he was like, I want you to do a flow chart or some kind of diagram about where things are going.
(15:01):
We needed something. He probably read a business book or something and was like, let's do it. And I was just like, okay, I'm a lawyer, not a raffle designer, but I'll do what you told me. And I put together this ugly diagram and he was like, okay, but make it more aesthetically pleasing. I still remember aesthetically pleasing and I was like aesthetically pleasing, this is insult. Where do you think I'm blah, blah, blah. I've obviously done a full 180 because I am just like, these diagrams are so powerful having used, I never looked back after we worked it out and I changed my thinking and I was like, every client needs one of these. They are so powerful. The impact of presenting that to the client was just like, whoa. And they got on board with how the testamentary trust worked and what was going where, and they helped me work out what's going where and have I missed something. And yeah, I just think they are so powerful and it's something that the law can learn from other industries.
Carrie (16:12):
And Tara, I have heard rumours of early career, Tara, but I don't think it has to be the lawyer preparing these either. I don't think you can send it off to your paralegal to prep it if you've trained them. I don't think you have to prepare them, but I think as you said, the value that you're giving the client is huge.
Tara (16:32):
Yeah, I mean I still prepare them all the time when I say you are mostly doing the hot seats, but when I was filling in from you, I was like, all right, we need a diagram. And I was doing it. And they don't take very long when you've got the right template set up and yeah. Alright, this next one we may not agree on.
Carrie (16:49):
Oh, we definitely don't agree on it, but Tara's being diplomatic,
Tara (16:53):
Okay, we talked about this in a previous episode. I think the one about why your clients aren't accepting your fee proposal number two, but I'm a big fan of sending a newsletter, whether it's weekly or monthly or whatever it is. I just think it's like if you can actually build a mailing list, like the people who interact with you online, with your business online or make inquiries, if you can actually email them all past clients, even just once a month or make regular contacts so that your front of mind, I think that is going to be so helpful for your business. It's free marketing. All you have to do is write your newsletter, inject your personality in there, and I really feel like it's going to convert those people sitting on the fence and actually get them to take action and work with you. And by the time that they do commit to working with you, they're going to feel like they know and trust you so much. I just think it's a big opportunity that a lot of law firms are not taking advantage of.
Carrie (17:59):
No, I think, I mean I know you are right, Tara. I'm bringing my bias to the table here because I hate spam emails like, Hey Taytay. Hey Tate, I am hitting that unsubscribe button. It was Valium, right? It annoys the snot out of me. But when you actually go to the underlying metrics behind the value that I know that you use newsletters in the art of estate planning and I know what a great tool that is for you and you can follow where the leads go and what they bring in. So there is a number value there that does convert. It's just me being the hater of spam and I might be the 1% of persons that are like that. But there is data to show you how much of a lead you are getting from a newsletter going out. You can see who clicks it, who opens it, how long they spend on it. So it does give you really invaluable data about who's engaging with you.
Tara (18:54):
Yeah, look, I want to share, I'm trying to work out what is it, the fourth wall is that when you show people behind scenes and you went practise in a stage, break their character and show you behind. Anyway, last week we were running a offer or a promotion on our precedents where there were $700 cheaper than normal. And I sent out two emails to remind, I sent out one and then I sent one a week later to remind people what it was and how long it went for. And we had six people, six law firms by the precedents and wouldn't, obviously they're getting one email from me saying, buy my precedents this say $700. It's not going to take someone who's never thought about investing in their precedence and go, oh yeah, I'm going to part with two and a half thousand dollars.
(19:50):
They must have considered it in the past being like, will I won't? I am on the fence. Maybe the time's not right, I should do that, but yeah, what's the bank account looking like? Not yet. I'm too busy. Whatever the excuse, right? So they're like warm customers and we can translate this to estate planning. People who have made an inquiry, they maybe have a cost agreement that you've sent out to them, but they haven't accepted it or they haven't even asked you for your prices yet, but they're just watching you and just the reminder of the email and saying, well, hey, we're doing this. This is what we're doing right now was enough to get six people to go the time's right now. I'm going to do it. I'm ready to commit or whatever. And I think if you're not sending the emails, you're just kind of missing out on the chance to keep people putting yourself front of mind for these people. So look, I also today on my list is I have to write my newsletter for the month coming up and I am like, what am I going to write about? I really don't like doing it. It's not something that comes natural to me. I will talk all day, but writing something chat, GPT is your friend Tara? Yeah, well, I do help them a bit, but it's like I can't just send out a whole newsletter written by chat GPT. No, but I mean I think it's got to come from the heart.
Carrie (21:11):
I don't think it's something you need to not think about use. You can use tools like AI to help you do those things, right? You don't have to be the person writing word for word, a newsletter if you hate writing newsletters.
Tara (21:25):
Yes.
Carrie (21:27):
So you can leverage off someone in your team that might be great at that type of thing. You can use your marketing team, you can use ai. There are lots of ways that you can do a newsletter that reduces your time with hands on keyboards.
Tara (21:40):
Yeah, absolutely. So anyway, take that with a grain of salt. But I think when you look at all the industries that are doing it, law firms are not really sending out good newsletters. And I just love a good newsletter. Estate planning is such a rich topic to weave in your personality and your personal experience. I think I've said it past, but I'll do it again. Jackie Thomas at Sun Will Estate. Her newsletters are just so lovely and joyful.
Carrie (22:11):
I mean, Jackie's lovely. You spend half a second with Jackie and she's wonderful. So she's definitely living her personality in the newsletters.
Tara (22:18):
So number 11, you and I, I know you and I agree on this one, Carrie, but some people listening may not agree, and it is, let's just simplify your signing and binding process. So shock horror, don't put your cup of tea down or whatever. I think you should be signing your wills on the last page only and abandon signing on every single page.
Carrie (22:44):
Let's just give a moment of silence for all those people going, I know they exist.
Tara (22:50):
Okay, I know. Just let me make the case. And then Carrie, you might address some of the rebuttals about it, but I think if you can get the way that you bind up your wills done in a way where there is no tampering risk and no risk of them falling apart or whatever, then signing on the last page is totally fine. And the method that I suggest, I even made a video, can you believe I made a YouTube video about how to get your wheels bound and I call it a three binding method. I did not pioneer this one about, well, I dunno, we should do it at the other firm that we write. I dunno if we even came up with the idea. Maybe you did, Carrie.
Carrie (23:35):
No, no, that is not a me idea thing. I'm not that smart, Tara.
Tara (23:38):
Yeah, but basically it's like using your multifunctional printer that can print a three, just print it as a booklet on a three with staples down the spine. So it ends up being like an A four booklet and it basically will not come apart. And I've done a video, I'm not going to explain that now, but I'll link the video and it's cheap. It looks really professional. It's not going to fall apart. You only need to sign it on the last page. And I know you're going to talk about scanning. I address the scanning technique or proposal in the video as well. Love or hate the A three people have emailed me and said the A three binding method has changed their life. So give it a chance, at least look into what's going
Carrie (24:22):
On in your life that an A3 binding method.
Tara (24:25):
Say professional life maybe, but give it a chance and you don't have to do it. But the idea is just think about why are you doing things the way that you are doing firm and do you still need to do that? Has technology moved on where it's cheaper and faster and easier?
Carrie (24:45):
It comes back to my favourite statement, that tradition is just peer pressure from dead people because signing wheels on every page, and I'm going to put the challenge out there for any lawyer that's listening, show me the law that says you have to sign a will on every page. Show me the law. And what we found, which is when we stopped doing every page, Tara, I remember when we were at the firm we were at is that often someone would forget to sign one of the pages and we would have to go back to the client to get this one page signed or to get them all resigned. It created more problems by missing a page. And yet the only issue I've ever had is with third parties trying to say, why is it not signed on every page? And then I will go back, I remember I had this discussion, I believe it was the New South Wales, like their version of the public trustee or guardian or one of the government bodies about that side of things.
(25:39):
They kind of sent me this email when a client went to register it and they're like, I think you and I might've worked on this one, Tara. And they said, it's not been signed on every page. And so I wrote this email back that said, please show me in the legislation where it's required to be signed on every page. And that was the end of that conversation. So I think that when we talk about this concept of it has to be signed on every page, that's not what the law says. The law has says it has to be signed at the end of the will. And then for a practical perspective, we have to make sure that it's tamper-proof, right? That it's cleared. The client had knowledge what they were signing.
(26:14):
That's my rant over.
Tara (26:16):
Yeah, exactly. And I know people are going to be concerned that they'll be requisitioned both at registry, but you think about all the informal, well, not the informal informal wills, but the homemade wills that are getting probate and it's just something that's been fear that's been put into us traditionally that I think if you get your binding method under wraps, then your signing can really be simplified. Alright, Carrie, you've got a lot to say on this one. Cost agreement protection.
Carrie (26:51):
I have got a lot to say, but I do appreciate we are going to be talking about this in a whole separate presentation in November. So we are as a part of the pricing toolkit, going to be releasing some specific terms for you to put into your cost agreements that are related to estate planning. Obviously it's not going to cover every single cost agreement term because those depend on the type of work that you're doing, where you are practising , et cetera, et cetera. But what we were finding is that lots of people were talking about issues that are unique or almost unique to estate planning, that when we go and look at the cases around, and I shouldn't say just cases, but look at materials around what other parties think about those issues, it all came back to what was the ability in your costs agreement.
(27:42):
So things like if your client changes their mind after you've done all the hard work in drafting the documents or oh, oops, I forgot I've got this other whole other name on other documents, and then you have to go in and do changes. I appreciate, I'm talking a lot here to fixed time, fixed build or fixed cost matters, but there are some time build issues that come in here as well. Things like storage of documents and the costs associated with storage of documents, which is largely something that affects estate matters rather than any other matter. So I think that when we talk about cost agreement protection, the position I've found after trawling for months through different materials is that in order to do it, you've at least got to have the base power in your cost agreement. There's a whole other discussion around whether you should do it and whether you can do it, but the starting position is always have you got a document that the client accepted saying that you can do it. So when we talk about that cost agreement protection, if you are listening, you are an estate planning lawyer, we're coming for you, we are going to help you out to make sure that you've got some protection for the type of work that you're doing.
Tara (28:49):
Yeah, Carrie, and you have done an enormous amount of work on this, and to be honest, cost agreement is such a boring topic. Whatcha saying, Tara, it's so dry and dull, but it's so important. And taking a step back, you're like, well, where are the leakages coming out of the profitability for the firm? And a lot of those little leakages can be sorted by clear kind communication in the cost agreement because I think I said previously, our lawyers and our members are so generous with your time and I think as soon as anything comes up that's a bit like iffy, who should pay for this and it's outside the normal package or plan. I think a lot of us are just like, oh, I'll absorb the cost. I'm talking the client misspelt someone's name wrong and didn't pick it up when you were reviewing the draughts or even signing them, you've had to send the documents out for signing instead of signing and witnessing them in person and they've come back with paperclips bulldog clips signed in the wrong place, they didn't come back at all, whatever.
(30:05):
Things like that. Also just we spoke about in I think episode number two, I'm just guessing. Yeah. Number two, why clients are so tardy and as estate planning the long burn, right? So people who are sitting on their cost agreement for a year, two years, and then they show up in your inbox going, we'll call you, Hey, remember me, I'm ready to go ahead now. And you're like, I've increased my prices since then, and is it the new price or the old price? Just setting some really clear, kind, assertive parameters around what happens and who's responsible in those situations. You can still absorb the cost if you want, but you're legally protected. You can point to the terms, you're setting the expectation clearly about whether you do absorb it or not, and you probably shouldn't if the client has done the wrong thing.
Carrie (31:03):
Yeah, I think as I said, I think the position is that you have it in your cost agreement and then you get to decide whether you actually do enforce the terms or not.
Tara (31:13):
So we'll be on the bandwagon soon just telling everyone, have a read of your own cost agreement. You probably read it one time or two times when you set up the firm and you may not have read it for a long time. And we've got 15 pages of estate planning clauses that are specific to the things that go wrong on estate planning matters that we just suggest. You might want to pop into your existing cost agreement just to protect the firm a little bit and make it clear about who's responsible. I think if we can fill and plug some of those leaks again, that's going to help your profitability. Oh, okay. So number 13, that's me and I want to talk about flyers or client material. I love a flyer. We have made so many new flyers this year to add a little bit of extra value to our precedent packages about explaining some of these key legal concepts to clients as part of our pitching communication or attaching it to your letter when you're sending out drafts.
(32:24):
Just we've worked really hard to translate these technical legal concepts into plain English language for a lay person to understand. So back to Carrie's point, oh, you need a power of attorney for your company. Why? Here's a flyer in one page or two pages that explains why, what happens if you don't have one, why your will isn't enough, why your personal enduring power isn't enough, the things that could go wrong. And that just helps you explain it to, firstly, you can use it as a script, but also when the client is a week later or two weeks later when they try to decide what they're doing and they're looking at your email, they can read it and go, oh yeah, now I remember what they told me. Yeah, I do need it. So that kind of stuff. If you've got that infrastructure in your firm, especially if it's branded beautifully and looks really professional, I think it can really just help with the sales position and also reminding clients. And let's face it, we tend to fall into that legalese and the legal explanations really easily. So just having some really good client facing resources I think can help tremendously.
Carrie (33:43):
I've got no notes. I totally agree. I said what I said before about clients, visual learners. So again, why reinvent the wheel riding each time why client needs a power of attorney. Have a flyer, say see the attached.
Tara (33:57):
Yeah, exactly. So if you're new to that, we have a whole bunch in our precedent packages, which our members use, they rebrand, they customise, they make them their own. But it's a great starting point. And also if there's other things that are happening all the time, then in your unique business, you can use that as inspiration about, how will I write a flyer on this? So Carrie, you talked about the letter of wishes upsell. We do have a beautiful workbook more than just like your basic legal letter of wishes. It's actually written by one of our very generous members, Bernadette Duell of Great Southern Wills. She consulted with funeral directors, financial planners, accountants, just really committed a huge amount of thought and time into developing this. I think it's like 50 page booklet.
Carrie (34:51):
Bernadette is the Miss Congeniality of estate planning. She just is, she's the kindest person. And I think that puts her in the best place to do this sort of product because you can see the level of care that she's put into this document. For those people that really do want to tell a story about their estate wishes and you can feel Bernadette's love in that document, there's no way that you can't, and she's got the ability to automate it with systems. It's just a great document for anybody that wants to be a bit more comprehensive in giving information that can't really or doesn't really go inside a will.
Tara (35:31):
Yeah, it's things like for the executors, where is the key for the guardians? Who is my children's doctor? What are their food preferences or intolerances? It goes to a huge amount of detail and it's really the practical roadmap to accompany the legal framework that we have in the will and attorney documents. And I just think it's a really beautiful value add. And on behalf of Bernadette, we actually have that available as a white label precedent for firms to buy. And if you have a look like Angie at a JT Legal, her branding is stunning and she's got on her Instagram videos of what she's done with that booklet and it is just beautiful. Can you say that about a legal document? I don't know, but it does. It looks like the most beautiful professional inspiring booklet that people actually want to sit down. She sent me the finished published booklet and I gave it to my mom to fill in and she was like, oh, actually she saw it in my office and was like, what's this? And I was like, you have it. Fill it in. Please. I need to know this stuff for when I'm your executor execut, and it's something you're excited to actually fill in and complete. It looks beautiful. So I just think that's a really, I don't know, is it out of the box? It's kind of let's make the estate planning experience for clients. Elevate it a little bit.
Carrie (37:09):
Yep. No more notes.
Tara (37:12):
We made it to the end and I was going to say, this is the shameless plug, but we've been shamelessly plugging everything we do the whole time. But look, if you like the stuff that we're talking about, if any of it has resonated with you and you feel called, come join us. In the TT Precedents Club community, there is so much inspiration being shared. So many ideas of how can we do things differently. Carrie, the document corners that I think you were using in your firm, Sally Ann was the one who sourced them initially or maybe you sourced them and then Sally Ann. But we're just, who's your supplier for this? Who's a bookkeeper we can have and just challenging ideas and new things. It is just the most generous, supportive community. And collectively we are all getting better as estate planning lawyers every day from each other's shared knowledge and generosity.
Carrie (38:14):
And I should say, Tara, we talk a lot here, and I promise you it's not a cult, but you don't have to be that person that joins the TT Precedent Club forever. It's a month to month subscription. So if you've got a couple of questions on a client matter or you want to have a look at some of the existing hot seats where we talk about things, because we do have your monthly subscription does allow you to access previous recordings. You can join for a month and then turn the membership off. So in terms of having to join us and be with us forever, that's not necessarily something you have to do. We are here to help, whether you are a stayer or whether you are a plug and play person, we want to make sure that you are delivering the best service to your clients in whatever way suits you.
Tara (38:58):
Well, I think that is going to wrap up our episode. Thank you so much for joining us. If you have any things that you have done in your firm that you think has been a total game changer and you want to share that with the community, we would love to hear as well. You can post that in the Art of Estate Planning Facebook group and yeah, otherwise, have a very profitable and abundant day.
